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1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
2 COUNTY OF SANTA CLARA
3 --oOo--
4
5 RALPH SIMPSON, )
)
6 Plaintiff, )
)
7 vs. ) No. 105CV053398
)
8 LOU RAE KAGEL; LYNN O'BRIEN; JAMES )
O'BRIEN; STONEHENGE PROPERTIES, )
9 INC.; VALLEY OF CALIFORNIA, INC. dba )
COLDWELL BANKER; DOUGLAS REA; and )
10 DOES ONE through TWENTY, inclusive, )
)
11 Defendants. )
)
12 AND RELATED ACTIONS. )
13
14
15 DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER
16 Tuesday, November 14, 2006
17
18
19
20
21 Taken before JANELL SOKOL, CSR, CM
License No. C-3443, State of California
22
23
DIABLO VALLEY REPORTING SERVICES
24 Certified Shorthand Reporters
2121 N. California Blvd., Suite 310
25 Walnut Creek, California 94596
925-930-7388 1
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 I N D E X
2 PAGE
3 EXAMINATION BY:
4 MR. KOSS 4
5 MR. MINOLETTI 28
6 MR. THOMAS 31
7 FURTHER EXAMINATION BY:
8 MR. MINOLETTI 35
9 MR. KOSS 36
10 --oOo--
11
12 E X H I B I T S
13 NUMBER PAGE
14 A Contract 26
15 B Pool plans 26
16 C Drawings/map 27
17 D Site plan 27
18 E Construction Specifications 27
19 F Group of documents 28
20 --oOo--
21
22
23
24
25
2
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 BE IT REMEMBERED, that pursuant to notice to the
2 respective parties, and on Tuesday, the 14th day of
3 November, 2006, commencing at the hour of 1:30 p.m.
4 thereof, at the Law Offices of GAGEN, McCOY, McMAHON, KOSS,
5 MARKOWITZ & RAINES, 279 Front Street, Danville, California,
6 before me, JANELL SOKOL, a Certified Shorthand Reporter,
7 License No. C-3443, State of California, there personally
8 appeared:
9 RON CHANDLER,
10 called as a witness on behalf of the defendants, who, being
11 first duly sworn, was then and there examined and
12 interrogated as hereinafter set forth.
13 PAUL G. MINOLETTI, Attorney at Law, representing
14 the Law Offices of GREENE, CHAUVEL, DESCALSO & MINOLETTI,
15 951 Mariner's Island Boulevard, Suite 630, San Mateo,
16 California 94404, appeared as counsel on behalf of the
17 plaintiff;
18 CHARLES A. KOSS, Attorney at Law, representing the
19 Law Offices of GAGEN, McCOY, McMAHON, KOSS, MARKOWITZ &
20 RAINES, 279 Front Street, Danville, California 94526,
21 appeared as counsel on behalf of defendants Lou Rae Kagel;
22 STEPHEN W. THOMAS, Attorney at Law, representing
23 NRT Incorporated Western Division, 12657 Alcosta Boulevard,
24 Suite 500, San Ramon, California 94583, appeared as counsel
25 on behalf of defendant Coldwell Banker.
3
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 RON CHANDLER,
2 called as a witness on behalf of the defendants,
3 having first been duly sworn by the court reporter
4 to testify the truth, the whole truth and nothing
5 but the truth, testified as follows:
6 --oOo--
7 EXAMINATION
8 BY MR. KOSS:
9 Q. Could you please state your name and business
10 address.
11 A. Ron Chandler, 148 -- excuse me. 1495 South
12 Winchester, San Jose, California 95128.
13 Q. Are you currently employed?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. How are you employed?
16 A. I am the company's drafter.
17 Q. And by the company you mean Swan Pools?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Let me give you some of the ground rules just so
22 it's clear.
23 You've been given an oath to tell the truth and
24 even though this is an informal setting, it's the same oath
25 you'd be given in a court of law.
4
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Do you understand that?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. The same penalties of perjury and all that kind of
4 thing attach to that.
5 Do you understand that as well?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. We have a court reporter that's taking down
8 what you say, what I say, indeed what anybody in this room
9 says. In order for her to take down the testimony
10 accurately, if we talk at the same time that becomes
11 difficult for her. So if could you wait for me to finish,
12 I'll try and wait for you to finish your answers.
13 Also, you need to answer out loud. Shakes of the
14 head, things like that, don't translate very well. So from
15 time to time I may prompt you for a yes or a no or an
16 answer, and I don't mean to be rude. I just mean to get a
17 clear record. Fair enough?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Okay. Very good. Are you under any medication or
20 anything like that that would impair your ability to
21 testify?
22 A. No.
23 Q. If you don't understand a question, please let me
24 know and I'll try and rephrase it, because the last thing I
25 want to do is either trick you or give you a question you
5
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 don't understand. Fair enough?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Any questions before we get going?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Okay. How long have you been employed by Swan
6 Pools?
7 A. A little over ten years.
8 Q. And you say your position with the company is
9 drafter?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Have you held that same job the entire time?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What are the job responsibilities of a company
14 drafter at Swan Pools?
15 A. Research property on the property in question that
16 belongs to the homeowner, measure the property, draw the
17 working plans.
18 Q. Now, I've asked Swan Pools to produce today all
19 the documents they have relating to some property located
20 at 17682 Blanchard Drive, Monte Sereno, California.
21 Have you brought documents responsive to that?
22 A. I believe so.
23 Q. Okay. I briefly looked into that before we
24 started the deposition and you produced what you call your
25 job file.
6
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And maybe more precisely, Swan Pools' job file.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Is it correct that every document relating to a
5 client of Swan Pools would be put into the job file?
6 A. Normally, yes, and I believe that's the case here.
7 Q. By looking at this file, can you tell when --
8 strike that.
9 Do you know who the homeowners were on the
10 property on Blanchard?
11 A. Having recalled, it is the Simpsons.
12 Q. Have you ever talked to the Simpsons?
13 A. I don't believe they were home when I was out at
14 the property and I don't recall talking to them.
15 Q. How many times did you go to the Blanchard
16 property?
17 A. Once.
18 Q. And what was your purpose in going to the
19 property?
20 A. To measure the property so that I could draw the
21 plans.
22 Q. By looking at the file can you tell when the
23 Simpsons first talked to anyone at Swan Pools about
24 constructing a pool at their property on Blanchard?
25 A. It might be located on the front. They sometimes
7
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 put a note. Let me take a look and see if this one has it.
2 It does not have the date that we were contacted
3 for the initial visit, but it has the date of the contract.
4 Q. And what's the date of the contract?
5 A. The date of the contract is February 13, 2003.
6 Q. By looking at the file can you tell whether or not
7 the Simpsons met with anyone at Swan Pools prior to
8 entering into a contract with Swan Pools?
9 A. Not by looking at the file. For all I know, the
10 salesman may have had only one visit with them and
11 concluded it all at once or he may have had a call back, in
12 which case he went out, discussed certain things, said he
13 would design a pool and then returned at a later time.
14 That information isn't part of the file.
15 Q. From the file can you tell who the salesman was?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And who was that?
18 A. Mike Blackburn.
19 Q. Is Mr. Blackburn still with Swan Pools?
20 A. Yes, he is.
21 Q. Does he work out of the Winchester office in San
22 Jose?
23 A. Yes, he does.
24 Q. Maybe you can describe for me how the process
25 typically works. Is it correct that a salesman would meet
8
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 with a potential customer and kind of go over the kind of
2 things that Swan Pools can do for them?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And what happens from that point?
5 A. Assuming that it culminates in a contract, the
6 salesman discusses what the customer wants, designs a pool
7 to meet that customer's requirements, submits that pool
8 back to the customer. I imagine they dicker over price. I
9 haven't been there during a deal, but there's discussions
10 of price and so forth, maybe additions of additional
11 features or equipment or deletion of certain features and
12 equipment, depending on cost, and at some point they come
13 to a conclusion that says this is the pool I want, this is
14 what I'm willing to pay for it.
15 The salesman says, fine, let's write up a
16 contract. They write up a contract. The homeowner reads
17 the contract, is satisfied with it, signs it.
18 Q. Okay. So there's design work that is done before
19 the parties sign a contract?
20 A. Almost always, yes.
21 Q. And looking at the file -- I'm sorry.
22 A. I was just going to say, in some instances, you
23 know, the homeowner may already have a design done by a
24 landscape architect or something like that, and so when
25 they have it, then basically it becomes just the bickering
9
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 over price and they either come to an agreement or not.
2 But usually it's done did way I described.
3 Q. By looking at the file, can you tell what are the
4 initial designs that were put together by Swan Pools?
5 A. Yes. They would be shown by the salesman's
6 wetmores. This is page 1 and this is page 2. Somewhere in
7 there is page 1. This is a three-dimensional drawing that
8 Mike did and there is probably a plan drawing in there
9 somewhere that he shuffled through.
10 And even this would not necessarily be the final
11 thing compared to -- because he may do this, which takes an
12 awful lot of time, and then at some point in time the
13 customer may say, well, I want this changed or I want that
14 changed, and that's noted in the contract or on the final
15 wetmore. But he wouldn't -- this takes so much time to do.
16 Q. Well, I guess that's my question. Does Swan Pools
17 do this kind of design work that we're looking at here? If
18 it's wetmore I guess --
19 A. It depends on the salesman. A good many of the
20 salesmen don't do this. Mike takes the time to do this
21 particular type.
22 That one is my drawing, which is construction.
23 All those ones are -- that one is probably page 1. Yes,
24 see down there in the lower corner. That's page 1 of the
25 wetmore. That is a plan view of the same design.
10
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. Okay. So now we have in front of us page 1 and
2 page 2 of the -- is it wet or webmore?
3 A. Wet.
4 Q. W-E-T?
5 A. Um-hum, like something is damp. Like I said, I
6 have no idea where that comes from.
7 Q. This is two sheets. It says "Plan Authorization,"
8 has a logo for Swan Pools and it indicates that the
9 buyer/owner is Ralph and Thomasena Simpson.
10 A. Mike does pretty pictures. His handwriting is
11 deplorable.
12 Q. And it shows a contract date of November 11, 2002.
13 A. That's the date at which this was prepared and you
14 can take a look at the actual contract and see what date it
15 has on it.
16 Q. Well, why don't we take a look at that.
17 A. Let's see here. Excuse me. The final date of the
18 contract is 2/13/03, which is what's on the package.
19 Q. Okay. So from looking at these documents in the
20 file, would you conclude that this wetmore was prepared
21 prior to the time that there was a contractual relationship
22 between Swan Pools and the Simpsons?
23 A. Yes, yes.
24 Q. By looking at these plans -- strike that.
25 Did you ever have any discussions with
11
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Mr. Blackburn about what the Simpsons wanted?
2 A. I may have called him. As I said, his handwriting
3 leaves something to be desired. I may have called him with
4 numerous questions during the period of time that I was
5 drawing up the plans. Then again, I may have called him
6 with one question or even no questions. It being three
7 years ago, I don't remember what the case is.
8 Q. Okay.
9 A. Generally I work off the wetmore and only if I
10 have a question regarding something that I don't understand
11 that he may have been trying to convey do I call and ask a
12 salesman. Other than that I work off the contract and the
13 wetmore.
14 Q. So the way it works is, at least in this case, is
15 Mr. Blackburn would have met with the Simpsons, got some
16 ideas from them, put together these drawings, this wetmore,
17 and then proceeded to enter into a contract once the
18 Simpsons were happy with the basic conception on the plans?
19 A. Right.
20 Q. After that the plan, the wetmore, would be given
21 to you to prepare formal plans?
22 A. Exactly. And then my plans are actually used to
23 pull the permits and to construct the pool.
24 Q. In your normal job duties, do you typically have
25 need to contact the homeowner?
12
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 A. It's not necessary. Generally if I have questions
2 for the homeowner -- which I usually work through the
3 salesman. About the only time I would have contact with
4 the homeowner is, A, I always call before going out to the
5 property to make sure that the property is available to be
6 looked at, if gates or whatever need to be unlocked; also,
7 do they have any dogs so that I don't get eaten.
8 The other situation is if either the husband or
9 wife happen to be home -- I tell them it's not necessary
10 for them to be home, but if they happen to be home I may
11 meet with them just to introduce myself and tell them when
12 I'm done measuring the property.
13 Q. Now, this wetmore references a contract date of
14 November 11, 2002.
15 Does your file contain a contract with that date
16 on it?
17 A. No, it does not. The final contract is two days
18 later than that. It's the 13th.
19 Q. Well, this says November 11 of 2002, some months
20 earlier.
21 A. Oh, okay. I thought you said 2003. I
22 misunderstood.
23 Yeah, that may have been prepared. They may have
24 had a situation where whatever, they thought about it for a
25 year. I have no idea why it took a year.
13
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Or actually, this is February.
2 Q. So it looks like three months.
3 A. Four months.
4 Q. Right.
5 A. They may have needed to look at the plan or
6 something for a period of four months for them to make up
7 their mind.
8 Q. Okay. Now, there seems to be some --
9 A. Those are all the legal disclaimers.
10 Q. Okay. So the legal disclaimers get glued onto the
11 plan authorization wetmore, as you call it, at some point.
12 A. Well, as you can see, it's a different type of
13 paper, the reason being is that the normal disclaimer
14 sheet, which is the normal wetmore sheet, is a smaller
15 piece of paper. It's a ledger size sheet and if the
16 salesman -- either the property is too large to show on
17 that piece of paper and show the detail that needs to be
18 done or the salesman, as is shown on the second page, wants
19 to show more detail and so forth. Then he still needs to
20 have the disclaimers put on there, so he has another sheet
21 for salesman and he just attaches it.
22 Q. I see. And in looking at the wetmore, the legal
23 disclaimer that appears to be glued on there is dated
24 February 13, 2003, the same date as the contract.
25 A. Yeah. That's when it was finally accepted.
14
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. And you may have already alluded to this but I'll
2 ask you anyway. Do you have any knowledge as to why there
3 was some three months' delay from the initial date on the
4 wetmore to the time of the contract?
5 A. No, none. It could have been just that it was
6 winter and they didn't want to begin construction at that
7 time. I have no idea why there was a delay, whether it was
8 cost, family, weather, whatever.
9 Q. Do you know one way or the other whether or not
10 the Simpsons wanted any work done in addition to what's
11 depicted on these plans in terms of accessory structures,
12 like gazebos or anything along those lines?
13 A. No. As far as I know, the only thing that I'm
14 aware of is what's shown on that plan.
15 Q. Does Swan Pools do that type of work, that is,
16 accessory structures like gazebos and the --
17 A. No. We don't even do decking.
18 Q. Cement decking?
19 A. Any decking.
20 Q. If this shows cement decking, that would be done
21 by --
22 A. It would be done by another contractor.
23 Q. And do you act as the general contractor for that
24 work or not?
25 A. No.
15
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. You direct the homeowner to somebody else?
2 A. Exactly.
3 Q. Do you recall any discussion between yourself or
4 anybody at Swan Pools with the Simpsons about their desire
5 to construct any accessory structures or buildings on the
6 site?
7 A. Other than the pool and what is shown on the
8 wetmore, no.
9 Q. Now, at some point you personally became involved
10 in the project, right?
11 A. Right.
12 Q. And when you got involved, what documents were you
13 given?
14 A. I was given at that point -- it has much less
15 stuff in it, but I was given the package with everything
16 that was in the package, which would have included a copy
17 of the contract, a copy of the breakdown and a copy of the
18 wetmore and all the legal disclaimers that go with pool
19 construction, most of which are stuff that just -- do you
20 accept this, do you accept this, do you accept this, and
21 it's all preprinted and -- as you can see in there.
22 Q. Okay. What is the first thing that you did?
23 A. The first thing I did was make a copy of the
24 things that I would need in making up this package.
25 Q. And by this package you're talking about --
16
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 A. There's a copy of the plan view of the wetmore.
2 There is a copy of the contract and normally there would be
3 copy of the breakdown in there as well, but the breakdown
4 is somewhere else in this deal, because I look over it and
5 mark it and then hand it back in.
6 Q. By breakdown, what do you mean by that?
7 A. Cost breakdown.
8 Q. I see.
9 A. And there's a map in there, too, that I make so
10 I'll know how to get to the property.
11 Q. And what's your purpose in making copies of the
12 contract and the wetmore?
13 A. So that I know when I draw the plan a couple of
14 different things. One is so that I know -- when I draw the
15 plan, I'll know what the salesman wants.
16 The other thing is the front page has the address
17 and so forth on it and I need that in order to do my
18 research and I need to know how to get to the property, and
19 other stuff needed to actually draw the plans.
20 Q. Before actually starting to draw plans, did you do
21 research?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. What research did you do?
24 A. I look at the recorded map at the County of Santa
25 Clara in this particular case, find out the meets and
17
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 bounds of the property. It's right there on top. Make a
2 sketch.
3 Q. There seems to be a sketch that's made. That's a
4 sketch that you did?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And this is a sketch that shows the meets and
7 bounds on the property. There seems to be a calculation of
8 .607 acres.
9 A. Yes. That's additional information. That's the
10 size of the property and this is the number of square feet
11 that that translates to.
12 Q. Where did you get that information?
13 A. Off the recorded map.
14 Q. So you went down to the county and got -- to the
15 city and got a map?
16 A. Yes. I didn't get the map. I copied the
17 information from the map.
18 Q. And then you made calculations off of that to
19 determine the number of square feet?
20 A. Actually, I copied that as well. But I could
21 have. I would have done it using my CAD program to give me
22 the square footage, and it should be the same.
23 Q. Did you copy down from the city records both the
24 square footage of the lot and the acres of the lot?
25 A. It probably gave only acres and I converted.
18
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. You converted that. Okay.
2 What was your purpose in determining the meets and
3 bounds of the property and in determining the number of
4 square feet on the property?
5 A. The meets and bounds are required in every
6 jurisdiction in our area in order to draw a full site plan.
7 You have to draw the property the way it is as a legal
8 recorded map and you have to give the meets and bounds.
9 So I have to know them in order to, A, draw them
10 and, B, put them down on the map. The square footage is
11 required in the City of Monte Sereno as it is in the City
12 of Saratoga for something called impervious coverage.
13 Q. So you needed to know the square footage of the
14 lot so you could make some impervious coverage --
15 A. -- calculations, which are shown on my site plan
16 which you have there.
17 Q. Okay. Sure. Why don't we take a look at that
18 then.
19 Okay. Now we're looking at -- I'm trying to see
20 how to identify this thing. You call it a site plan?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And it says "Site Plan." It doesn't have a date
23 on it, though, does it?
24 A. No, although I can tell you what date it was
25 drawn.
19
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. Sure. What date was it drawn?
2 A. It was drawn February 19, 2003.
3 Q. And on the site plan you have drawn in dimensions
4 for the swimming pool?
5 A. Actually, dimensions for setback purposes. The
6 layout dimensions are shown on the layout plan.
7 Q. Do you do a survey of the property?
8 A. I do a measuring of the property.
9 Q. And when you say you do a measuring of the
10 property, what do you measure?
11 A. I measure the house and I measure the distance
12 from the house to all the property lines as indicated by
13 fences and so forth, which should be on the property line.
14 Q. So in other words, on the back of the pool here
15 you have the pool set 12.6 inches off of the back of the
16 property line. You just measure that from the fence?
17 A. Exactly.
18 Q. What's your purpose in measuring the residence?
19 A. One, it's required by every city in our
20 jurisdiction, which includes four counties and all the
21 cities in those counties; and in this particular case
22 because it matters from the standpoint of impervious
23 coverage.
24 Q. And I see you have a calculation on your site plan
25 for impervious cover.
20
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. The lot size you got off of public records,
3 correct?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Are all the rest of the figures figures that you
6 calculated?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And you calculated those by actually going out to
9 the site and physically measuring the driveway, the
10 house --
11 A. Exactly.
12 Q. -- the patios, all that. Okay.
13 A. And then I used that to make the drawing and then
14 once they were drawn I was able to let the computer
15 calculate those. So I could go over and measure from point
16 to point, for instance, on the house, and when I was done
17 it would give me .02 of a foot the square footage of the
18 house.
19 Q. So if we look at the contract date, which was
20 February 13, 2003, within six days you've now completed the
21 measurements for the impervious cover and completed the
22 site plan?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. After you completed the site plan, did you believe
25 that there was some potential difficulties with the amount
21
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 of impervious cover on the site?
2 A. Not at that point.
3 Q. At some point did you determine that there was a
4 problem?
5 A. At some point. Again, back to dates, it went into
6 PG&E for their approval on February 21 and it was ready to
7 pick up from PG&E on March 13, and within a day or so of
8 that it would have been taken to the City of Monte Sereno,
9 because that -- PG&E has to give approval before it goes to
10 the city.
11 Q. And I'm sorry. What date was it picked up from
12 PG&E or ready to be picked up?
13 A. It was ready to the picked up on the 13th of
14 March.
15 Q. Do you know what date it was submitted to the City
16 of Monte Sereno?
17 A. No, I don't. I'm not the permit runner.
18 Q. How did you find out that there was a problem with
19 the impervious cover?
20 A. At some point in time the permit runner came back
21 to me and said the percentage, which you can see down there
22 as a final percentage, which is 50.5, I believe, was more
23 than was allowed for that particular zoning.
24 I let the salesman know and the salesman let the
25 Simpsons know.
22
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. Do you have any knowledge as to how that was
2 resolved?
3 A. Only by the results. As I understand it, hearsay,
4 the Simpsons discussed with the city what would be needed
5 for them to be able to build the pool as designed, and as I
6 understand it, they were told that they would have to
7 convert some of their hard coverage of their driveway from
8 concrete to pavers.
9 They were okay with that, or they at least went
10 ahead with that, and at that point the city approved the
11 plans and the permits were issued and we built the pool;
12 and the pool was, on its completion, finaled by the city.
13 Q. As a result of this difficulty with the impervious
14 cover, did that affect any of the drawings that you had
15 done?
16 A. No. These are the only drawings that I have done.
17 So since my drawing shows the concrete as it existed prior
18 to their discussion with the city and I was never told to
19 actually change it, whatever they discussed with the city
20 didn't change the drawings.
21 Q. Do you know how long it took for the city to work
22 out an arrangement with Mr. Simpson in order to eliminate
23 some of the concrete work and replace it with pavers?
24 A. No, I don't.
25 Q. Can you tell by your file when construction
23
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 started?
2 A. I can take a look and see if there's something in
3 here. It looks like from what I can see that construction
4 actually began September 17, 2003, plus or minus. I don't
5 know if it took more than one day to complete the
6 excavation or not, but the signoff sheet that was given to
7 us by the excavator is dated September 17, 2003.
8 Q. Do you know when a building permit was issued?
9 A. No, I don't offhand.
10 Q. Would that be in your file?
11 A. I can look and see here. Okay. It looks like the
12 permit was finally issued May 29, 2003.
13 Q. And what are you looking at?
14 A. I'm looking at a receipt given to us by the City
15 of Monte Sereno, and this is one that was submitted 3/14,
16 the City of Monte Sereno. This is probably the date that
17 it was submitted.
18 Q. In your experience how long does it take at the
19 City of Monte Sereno for a plan like this to go through
20 plan check and a permit issue?
21 A. It can take anywhere -- it depends on how busy
22 they are and how much work they have to do. It can take
23 anywhere from three weeks to over two months.
24 Q. In this case do you know of any reason why there
25 might be a delay in issuing a permit?
24
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 A. No, I don't.
2 Q. Now, you indicate a permit was issued at the end
3 of May 2003?
4 A. And it wasn't done until September.
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. I have no idea why there was a delay in that.
7 Q. And was there anything in your file that would
8 indicate why there was a delay?
9 A. I don't see anything.
10 Q. Generally is there a copy of the permit in the job
11 file?
12 A. No, there isn't. The homeowner usually gets the
13 only copy of the file. We have a generic for the
14 particular cities that we schedule in we have to refer to,
15 so if they're talking with the homeowner they can tell the
16 homeowner where to find something on the permit, where to
17 look. But we don't have a copy of it.
18 MR. KOSS: Why don't we go off the record for a
19 moment.
20 (Discussion held off the record.)
21 MR. KOSS: Okay. Why don't we go back on the
22 record and we'll start marking some documents here.
23 First I'd like to mark this as -- at one time we
24 had a convention of marking things sequentially.
25 (Discussion held off the record.)
25
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 (Whereupon, the document described
2 below was marked Exhibit A for
3 identification.)
4 BY MR. KOSS:
5 Q. Mr. Chandler, I'm just going to mark as exhibits
6 some of the documents that we've taken from your job file.
7 The first document is Exhibit A and that is the contract?
8 A. Yes, sir.
9 MR. KOSS: Why don't we mark as Exhibit B the
10 two-page wetmore.
11 (Whereupon, the above-described
12 document was marked Exhibit B for
13 identification.)
14 BY MR. KOSS:
15 Q. Why don't we mark as next, Exhibit C --
16 A. Property research sketch.
17 Q. Yes. The documents from your property research,
18 the first page being the drawing you did of the property,
19 including the calculation you did of the square footage.
20 A. Meets and bounds. It's not a calculation. It's
21 taken directly. The only calculation is conversion.
22 Q. Right. And there's a map of the --
23 A. -- location of the property.
24 Q. And the next page is --
25 A. -- a sketch of measurements.
26
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. And that's so you could determine --
2 A. Yes, how to draw --
3 Q. -- the dimensions of the property and impervious
4 surface?
5 A. Um-hum, eventually.
6 Q. And the last page is?
7 A. A detail from the same.
8 Q. And that's a detail of what aspect of the
9 property?
10 A. Patio off the right side of the house.
11 Q. Right. Okay. We'll call that grouping of
12 documents Exhibit C, and then Exhibit D is the site plan
13 which contains your calculation of the impervious cover.
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Okay. We'll call that D.
16 And last we have a map that we would call what,
17 construction specifications?
18 A. Construction details.
19 MR. KOSS: And we'll call that Exhibit E.
20 (Whereupon, the above-described
21 documents were marked Exhibits
22 C, D and E for identification.)
23 MR. KOSS: And then why don't we call the balance
24 of your file which I've had photocopied Exhibit F, and I'll
25 return the balance to you.
27
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 (Whereupon, the above-referenced
2 documents were marked Exhibit F
3 for identification.)
4 MR. KOSS: I don't have anymore questions.
5 (Discussion held off the record.)
6 EXAMINATION
7 MR. MINOLETTI: Mr. Chandler, my name is Paul
8 Minoletti. We met briefly. I represent Mr. Simpson in
9 this matter.
10 Q. You mentioned earlier that some of the
11 jurisdictions require this impervious cover data.
12 A. Right. There are three.
13 Q. Which three are those?
14 A. Monte Sereno, Saratoga and Scotts Valley.
15 Q. And in your experience in your ten years as a
16 drafter with Swan, has that always been the case that those
17 three jurisdictions require this impervious cover data?
18 A. No. History lesson. Originally Monte Sereno did
19 not have their own building department. Back when I
20 started, their building was handled by Saratoga and you
21 went over and you looked at zoning and they decided the
22 zoning of the deal and then they shipped the plans to
23 Saratoga to be plan checked and so forth, and basically
24 they followed all of the City of Saratoga's building laws.
25 That was a long time ago.
28
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 It's been probably about eight years or so, Scotts
2 Valley adopted impervious coverage.
3 And by the way, impervious coverage is counted
4 differently in all three jurisdictions. For instance, in
5 Scotts Valley and in Monte Sereno, you get a discount, if
6 you will, for pavers. Saratoga, as of this year, you get a
7 discount for nothing. They even count gravel as impervious
8 cover. The only things that are not covered in Saratoga
9 are vegetation and bare ground.
10 Q. One of the first things you did was to go out and
11 measure to obtain this impervious cover data, correct?
12 A. Of the existing lot, yeah, what was existing.
13 Q. Because you knew there would be an issue there at
14 some point?
15 A. Well, it's not that it's an issue. It's just a
16 requirement. You have to furnish the information to them.
17 Q. And at the time did you know what the percentage
18 was or did you just --
19 A. No, I did not.
20 Q. You just collect --
21 A. I just generate it and give it to them, because
22 the percentages change depending on the zoning of the lot,
23 except for Scotts Valley where they consider that basically
24 everywhere is the same.
25 Q. Now, do you know -- I see on here you have
29
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 calculations for concrete pool deck and pavers for a pool
2 deck.
3 A. Um-hum.
4 Q. Do you know if those are counted the same in Monte
5 Sereno?
6 A. They are not counted the same. That's why they're
7 separated.
8 Q. And do you know how they are counted, what's the
9 difference?
10 A. I don't know what the difference was at the time.
11 I can't recall, and I don't know what they are today.
12 I do know that at times certain cities have given
13 as much as a 30 percent discount on coverage, and that is
14 to say something measuring 1,000 square feet would be
15 measured as something 700 square feet. I don't remember
16 what the discount for pavers was at the time that this was
17 done.
18 Q. Did you ever speak with anyone at the city about
19 your --
20 A. No, I did not.
21 MR. THOMAS: About what?
22 MR. MINOLETTI: About your plan here.
23 MR. THOMAS: Oh, okay.
24 THE WITNESS: You're hanging in the air.
25 MR. THOMAS: I was wondering what it was you were
30
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 asking.
2 But I'm glad you knew.
3 BY MR. MINOLETTI:
4 Q. Did you ever go back to the property after
5 anything was built?
6 A. No, I did not.
7 MR. MINOLETTI: All right. That's all I have.
8 EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. THOMAS:
10 Q. Mr. Chandler, my name is Steve Thomas.
11 A. Hello, Steve.
12 Q. I represent Coldwell Banker, a defendant in this
13 action.
14 What was the reason you measured the square
15 footage of the house?
16 A. It's required.
17 Q. By the City of Monte Sereno?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Now, on Exhibit C, the third page, these are your
20 calculations?
21 A. Those are the measurements of the property.
22 Q. That you took?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. These are your notes, your handwriting?
25 A. Yes.
31
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. How did you measure it? Was it by tape measure --
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. By tape. And you walked through the house and
4 measured every room?
5 A. No. I measured the exterior of the house. They
6 don't care what the square footage of the rooms are. They
7 care about what the footprint is.
8 Q. I see. Okay. And that's the same for the
9 guesthouse?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Did you check any other records to see what the
12 square footage of the house was indicated as being?
13 A. No, I did not.
14 Q. Did you ask the homeowner?
15 A. No, I did not.
16 Q. Did you ever talk to the architect who designed
17 the house?
18 A. No, I did not.
19 Q. Did you ever talk to the general contractor who
20 was in charge of building the house?
21 A. No, I did not.
22 Q. What about any real estate agent?
23 A. No, I did not.
24 Q. Did you talk to a person named Lynn O'Brien?
25 A. Not that I recall. I don't recognize the name.
32
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. Jim O'Brien?
2 A. Don't recognize the name.
3 Q. I'll represent to you that the O'Briens and
4 perhaps a company named Stonehenge are the ones that built
5 the house.
6 A. I don't ever recall -- I don't recall ever talking
7 to anyone that had anything to do with the construction of
8 the house.
9 Q. Do you know if Swan Pools has built any pools for
10 the O'Briens or Stonehenge?
11 A. I don't recall.
12 Q. Do you have any licenses?
13 A. No, I do not.
14 Q. Were you ever licensed as an engineer?
15 A. No.
16 Q. What's a permit runner?
17 A. The person who gets the permits.
18 Q. And is that person an engineer or --
19 A. No.
20 Q. It's just someone hired by Swan Pools, an employee
21 of Swan Pools?
22 A. Right.
23 Q. And what does a permit runner do?
24 A. They take the plans, make copies of it, put them
25 together with the engineering sheets that are required,
33
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 take them wherever they need to be taken in order to
2 ultimately get a permit.
3 So in this particular case the permit runner would
4 have taken copies of the plans first to PG&E for their
5 approval and then taken them to the city and dropped them
6 off there.
7 Q. Does the permit runner in your experience have any
8 conversations with, for example, city staff about the plans
9 in terms of the permit that's requested?
10 A. It can happen. It doesn't necessarily happen.
11 Sometimes it's a matter of dropping off. Sometimes it's a
12 matter of a person at the city or county in question may
13 have a comment, in which case they will converse about that
14 particular comment. If the person taking in the plan
15 doesn't have any comments, there is no conversation.
16 Q. Do you know or can you tell from your file who the
17 permit runner was for this particular job?
18 A. No, I can't.
19 Q. When you calculated the impervious coverage for
20 the property, did you have an understanding as to what
21 percentage was allowed by the City of Monte Sereno?
22 A. No, I did not.
23 Q. Did you ever find out?
24 A. Subsequently when it was turned down, I did find
25 out but I've long since forgotten.
34
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. So when you calculated the impervious coverage, in
2 your mind that didn't trigger something that you said, oh,
3 no, we might have a problem here?
4 A. No, because I didn't know what the particular
5 zoning of the property was, so I didn't know what would be
6 allowed. For instance, in the City of Saratoga, as I've
7 said, every single lot has a different thing I have to go
8 and check. In that city it's so bad that I have to check
9 before I even go out.
10 It costs us money to get the question answered to
11 find out what the coverage is because there aren't even
12 areas where they're the same. They change erratically.
13 MR. THOMAS: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chandler. I
14 don't have anything else.
15 THE WITNESS: Okay.
16 FURTHER EXAMINATION
17 MR. MINOLETTI: Just one clarification.
18 Q. On your site plan with your impervious data here,
19 when you say you measured the footprint, for example, of
20 the residence, that would include the garage, correct?
21 A. Yes, that includes the garage.
22 Q. And the same for the guesthouse; if it had a
23 garage, it would include the garage?
24 A. Right. The way that it's done is -- in the
25 computer I start at a corner. I go from corner to corner
35
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 to corner to corner all the way around to the beginning
2 point, click, and then ask it for object info and it gives
3 me what the square footage is of that footprint of the
4 thing that I just measured.
5 Q. The entire footprint of the building?
6 A. Right. And the same thing is true for the guest
7 house.
8 Q. What computer program do you use for this?
9 A. Minicat.
10 Q. Minicat?
11 A. Um-hum. The latest versions of Minicat, which I
12 don't feel a need for, are now called Vector Works.
13 MR. MINOLETTI: Okay. Thank you. That's all.
14 THE WITNESS: Okay.
15 FURTHER EXAMINATION
16 MR. KOSS: Just a couple of questions.
17 Q. On your site plan you specify pavers at pool deck.
18 A. Um-hum.
19 Q. Was there any specification as to whether those
20 pavers would be over concrete or over sand?
21 A. I was not told but it is assumed -- I know what
22 happens when you assume, but it is assumed that it is over
23 sand, because otherwise it is considered 100 percent
24 coverage; and the only reason for using pavers usually is
25 to prevent -- is to decrease the amount of coverage.
36
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. When you were doing your site plan, were you given
2 some information that basically said the homeowner requests
3 pavers over sand around the pool deck?
4 A. No, because that -- again, pavers are done to
5 decrease the amount of impervious coverage. So it can be
6 assumed that the reason why the homeowner would have pavers
7 in one area and not in another is that they're trying to
8 decrease the amount of impervious coverage, because pavers
9 are more uncomfortable to walk on than regular concrete is.
10 Q. Do you have any information in your file that the
11 homeowner, at the time they came to see Swan Pools, were
12 concerned about the impervious cover on the property?
13 A. Not specifically. It can be deduced from the
14 wetmore that the specified areas that are shown as pavers,
15 et cetera, are done for that reason. But that's just
16 generally in any city where there is impervious coverage,
17 they try and keep the impervious coverage, other than the
18 pool, to a minimum.
19 Q. Well, let's turn to Exhibit B, the wetmore.
20 A. Um-hum.
21 Q. Part of the decking around the pool is specified
22 as pavers.
23 A. Um-hum. For instance, there. That's pavers,
24 pavers, et cetera; and again I have pavers, pavers, pavers
25 here. Same thing, pavers (indicating).
37
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 Q. Okay. So your understanding at the time you
2 looked at the wetmore was that pavers over sand were
3 specified to the right and to the left of the pool and in a
4 semicircle around the spa?
5 A. Um-hum.
6 Q. That's yes?
7 A. Were proposed, yes.
8 Q. As a result of this problem that was encountered
9 with the impervious cover, was the design of any of the
10 flat work around the swimming pool changed to your
11 understanding?
12 A. Not that I know of. I don't know. They may have
13 had to go to all pavers subsequently. But since we don't
14 do the decking, it wouldn't come under my purview, just
15 like the question of the driveway didn't come back to my
16 knowledge. It was something that was worked out between
17 the Simpsons and the City of Monte Sereno.
18 Q. And the flat work around the pool wasn't specified
19 as pavers on the wetmore; it's specified as colored
20 concrete?
21 A. Yes. If it's shown as colored concrete, then it
22 would be the same. So I would say colored concrete,
23 colored concrete, pavers.
24 Q. In between the semicircle around the spa and the
25 two rear sections left and right, which are pavers.
38
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 A. Originally. I don't know if that was how it was
2 ultimately built. The only thing I know is that it was
3 finally approved by the city and that the city finaled the
4 pool when it was done.
5 MR. KOSS: Okay. Thanks very much.
6 (Whereupon, the deposition of RON CHANDLER was
7 concluded at 2:46 p.m.)
8 --oOo--
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25 DATE RON CHANDLER
39
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
1 STATE OF CALIFORNIA )
2 ) ss.
3 COUNTY OF CONTRA COSTA )
4
5
6 I, JANELL SOKOL, CSR, License No. CSR 3443, State of
7 California, do certify:
8 That RON CHANDLER, the witness in the foregoing
9 deposition, was by me first duly sworn to testify the
10 truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth in the
11 within-entitled cause;
12 That said deposition was reported at the time and
13 place therein stated by me, a Certified Shorthand Reporter,
14 and thereafter transcribed into typewriting;
15 I further certify that I am not interested in the
16 outcome of said action, nor connected with, nor related to,
17 any of the parties of said action or to their respective
18 counsel.
19 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set
20 my hand this day of November, 2006.
21
22 JANELL SOKOL, CSR, CM, License No. 3443,
23 State of California.
24
25
40
DEPOSITION OF RON CHANDLER - 11/14/06
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